[Documents]Il était une fois dans l'Ouest - C'era una volta il West - 1968 - Sergio Leone

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[Documents]Il était une fois dans l'Ouest - C'era una volta il West - 1968 - Sergio Leone

Messagepar Personne » 02 févr. 2008 10:24

Vous pouvez mettre ici vos documents sur ce film! (Affiches, articles, interviews, etc...)

Pour le débat, c'est ici:
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Re: [Documents]Il était une fois dans l'Ouest - C'era una volta il West - 1968 - Sergio Leone

Messagepar Darksatin » 02 févr. 2008 21:03

Les erreurs du film, relevées sur la fiche d'IMDB :

Goofs for C'era una volta il West (1968)

Continuity: During The Man's flashback which explains how he came to possess the harmonica, the harmonica changes from undamaged to damaged and back.

Continuity: When "Harmonica" shoots Franks, Cheyenne cuts his right cheek just below his eye with a razor because he jumps to the sound of the gunfire. The next time we see his face, there is no cut or bleeding.

Continuity: The shadows change direction between cuts throughout the gunfight scene between Frank and Harmonica.

Factual errors: Spanish railways have a broader gauge (1,674 mm) than the American railways, which are mostly built in standard gauge (1,435 mm). In some scenes of the film it can be clearly seen, that the "Morton Railroad" has been erected in the broad Spanish gauge. Also, European locomotives are outside-frame designs, while US locomotives are generally inside-frame.

Continuity: In the opening scene, the black man is drinking water from his hat. Later, when the three shooters are standing across from Harmonica, his hat is covered with dust.

Anachronisms: While preparing for the wedding feast, Brett's daughter sings a few lines of "Danny Boy". The words to this song were written in 1910.

Continuity: During the duel between Frank and Harmonica, Cheyenne shaves his beard (mostly his sideburns); however, his large whiskers under his ears have grown back before he dies (ten minutes later).

Continuity: During Harmonica's confrontation with Frank towards the end of the movie, his hair appears to have grown significantly from earlier in the film. However, when he enters the house to talk to Jill, his hair is short again.

Revealing mistakes: When Cheyenne shoots the man who's guarding Harmonica through the train window, there is no blood on the chair the man was sitting in, despite the fact that he was shot at pointblank range.

Continuity: Claudia's baggage is picked up by two men as she gets off the train and is deposited in front of her/them as they are seated on the station bench. In the next scene, we see them picking up the baggage again from alongside the train.

Revealing mistakes: During Harmonica's flashback, you can see quite clearly two ropes around his brother. While one is on his neck, the other goes through his shirt.

Anachronisms: When Harmonica climbs down the ladder, only to meet Frank at the other end of a '45, we clearly see that the ladder is electro-welded to the wagon and the steps are also electro-welded to the legs of the ladder. A rather lousy welding job, by the way! The movie takes place around 1870. Electro-welding started during the '90s, but the method got practicable only in the 1920s - and began to be commonly used in the late 1930s when the great navies (except for the Royal Navy) started to use the method for their first-line ships. The great leap forward came during WW2, when Liberty ships and many other vessels was electro-welded.

Errors made by characters (possibly deliberate errors by the filmmakers): Bronson tells Cheyenne during their first encounter, "In the dusters were three men. In the men were three bullets." However, Woody Strode was not wearing a duster when he and the others faced off against Bronson.

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Re: [Documents]Il était une fois dans l'Ouest - C'era una volta il West - 1968 - Sergio Leone

Messagepar Darksatin » 03 févr. 2008 0:08

On sait que Dario Argento et Bernardo Bertolucci ont truffé le scénario de références à des westerns américains. En voici quelques unes, trouvées sur le forum http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/ ... c=1379.105
Désolé, c'est encore en anglais !


Ace in the Hole (1952). The belt-and-suspenders remark comes from here.

The Comancheros (1961). The names McBain and Sweetwater come from this film, as does the image of a man drinking two-handed and slowly revealing that he is handcuffed.

Firecreek (1967). A ruthless Henry Fonda and his gang come to town to torment part-time lawman Jimmy Stewart and his fellow citizens. The town of Firecreek is compared unfavorably with a prosperous nearby community, Sweetwater. Fonda’s character is undoubtedly a prototype for Frank in OUATITW (SL may not have seen this film).

Fort Apache (1948). According to Sergio Leone: “The glacial Henry Fonda of Once Upon a Time is the legitimate son . . . of the intuition that John Ford brought to Fort Apache.”

Forty Guns (1957). A cinemascope Western, it employs several devices that would become SL staples, notably the ultra-close close-up of a character’s eyes. The film also ends with the title re-appearing; SL would later adopt and adapt this practice, making his audience wait for the conclusions of OUATITW and DYS to see those films christened.

High Noon (1952). Three baddies wait at a station for the noon train bringing Frank, similar to what happens at Cattle Corner at the beginning of OUATITW.

How the West Was Won (1962). There is an auction scene where Debbie Reynolds has to sell an expensive mansion for a song. The film concludes with Debbie Reynolds traveling in a four-wheel buggy through Monument valley with the Prescott family and a horse named Sam.

The Iron Horse (1924). The prototype for all railroad-building Westerns, inevitably referenced in OUATITW. The arrival of the locomotive, which travels over the top of the camera, is a direct quote. The shots of the rail gang at the end also seems inspired by the Ford picture.

Johnny Guitar (1954) Much of the plot for OUATITW comes from this picture, but there are also specific visual references. Vienna has a model of the railroad and the surrounding town; Johnny Guitar rides through railroad workers, much as Sam rides through railroad workers in OUATITW. And possibly Harmonica’s harmonica is a nod to Johnny Guitar’s guitar.

Jubal (1956). Not a reference as such, perhaps, but a reaction to an exchange that occurs between Ernest Borgnine and Glenn Ford.
--You know much about women?
--I can’t say I do. Why?
--Mae. Things ain’t right between us. You’ve been around. You’ve seen us. You know anything I can do to make her like me better? Of course, I can’t change this ugly face none but maybe some things I do, I don’t do right.
--There’s a lot of things a man does that bother a woman.
--Like what?
--Like slurping coffee out of a saucer.
--Yeah?
--Spitting. Scratching. Whacking her on the behind when she isn’t looking.
--Why, I always do that.
--You mean, in front of company?
--Why sure, if I just swat her in private—
--Do you think she likes being swatted?
--Don’t all women? Shows them you love them, don’t it?
--There are other ways, you know, Shep.
--Of course! Why, that’s exactly what’s been bothering her.
--That’s right. She’s just fed up with being whacked on the rump.
--Thanks for the tip, Jube.
It’s likely that SL used the following speech, from Cheyenne to Jill, as his response to the above: “You know what? If I was you I’d go down there and give those boys a drink. Can’t imagine how happy it makes a man to see a woman like you. Just to look at her. And if one of them should, uh, pat your behind, just make believe it’s nothing. They earned it.”

The Quiet Man (1952). The final flashback in OUATITW is shot and edited in such a way as to resemble the flashback of John Wayne killing a man in the ring.

The Last Sunset (1961). Kirk Douglas and Rock Hudson square off for a duel at the end that some feel was the model for the showdown between Harmonica and Frank.

Last Train From Gun Hill (1958): Anthony Quinn’s son does not approve of his father’s remarriage to an ex-dance-hall girl. In OUATITW, the oldest McBain boy similarly objects to his father’s remarriage.

Man of the West (1958) Julie London has her dance hall clothes ripped off her; perhaps this inspired the scene in OUATITW where Harmonica tears off part of Jill’s clothing.

The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962). Lee Marvin, Lee Van Cleef, and Strother Martin terrorize town residents during a local election meeting, similar to the way Frank’s men act in the auction scene in OUATITW.

My Darling Clementine (1946). The climactic shoot out at the OK Corral unfolds with sound effects but no music, undoubtedly a precursor to the “silent” opening sequence in OUATITW. Menacing men in dusters appear here as well.

Night Passage (1957). Jimmy Stewart is The Man With the Accordion.

The Paleface (1922). Jack Elam’s duel with the fly in OUATITW is an homage to Buster Keaton’s butterfly problem in this film.

Pursued (1947). Frayling suggests the recurring flashback structure in OUATITW is copied from the one used here. Since SL had already used the device in FAFDM, however, it might be just as appropriate to say Leone is quoting himself.

Red River (1948). There is a moment in the film when Clift slides a lantern across a darkened room to dramatically reveal Joann Dru’s face, an effect later used by Leone—when Cheyenne first confronts Harmonica—in OUATITW.

Run of the Arrow (1957). Charles Bronson plays a mute Indian boy who communicates by playing his harmonica. This is a possible inspiration for the character Harmonica in OUATITW.

The Searchers (1956). Aaron Edwards sees suspicious signs in the desert surrounding his house just prior to the massacre (for example, the partridges fly away as if spooked). This is clearly referenced in OUATITW just prior to the McBain massacre. Also, the shot of Scar from the girl’s POV after the massacre is similar to the one Timmy has of Frank after his family is killed. Finally, it may be Ford's use of back-lit doors in this film that inspired SL to begin his own doors fixation.

Shane (1952). Joey Starrett mimes the stalking of a deer, rifle in hand. In OUATITW, Timmy McBain mimes shooting birds.

3:10 To Yuma (1957). Glenn Ford whistles the title theme to pass the time. The sequence in OUATITW where Fonda is stalked by his own men in the streets of Flagstone is appropriated and adapted from the climactic sequence in 3:10 where Ford’s men come to free him. And of course, in OUATITW, Keenan Wynn decides to send Cheyenne to a “modern jail” in Yuma.

Warlock (1959). Fonda kicks a crutch out from beneath a cripple who has annoyed him, similar to what he does to Morton in OUATITW.

J'y rajouterais :

Au nom de la loi (Wanted : Dead or Alive) (série) : la winchester à la crosse et au canon scié de Stony (le personnage de Woody Strode) est la même que celle de Josh Randall. (signalé par Jean-Louis)

Coups de Feu dans la Sierra (Ride the Hide Country) : le personnage joué par Joel Mc Crea, touché à mort, dit au personnage joué par Randolph Scott de partir sans se retourner, pour qu’il ne le voie pas mourir.

L’Homme aux Colts d’Or (Warlock) : Henry Fonda y porte aussi un costume bleu-noir.

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Re: [Documents]Il était une fois dans l'Ouest - C'era una volta il West - 1968 - Sergio Leone

Messagepar Jean-Louis » 03 févr. 2008 12:17

Je viens de regarder les 20 premières minutes commentées du film, je vous recommande !

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En réalité ils se sont contentés de teindre en ocre les cache-poussière de l'Homme qui tua Liberty Valance qu'ils avaient racheté au costumier.

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Excusez, le commentaire correspond à la séquence qui précéde (l'image que j'ai mis de la winchester de Josh Randall)
en faite le commentateur fait allusion à la large boucle du levier de sous garde identique à la Winchester 92 de John Wayne dans Rio Bravo, mais aussi de la Chevauchée fantastique et de Hondo.

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ça doit-être un lapsus (moi l'autre, je sais c'est pas élégant, mais elle me fait rire depuis plus de 50 ans)

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Quoi que de plus normal avec tout le bois qu'il y a profusion tout autour.
C'est ce qui m'a toujours fait marer ces villes tout en bois en plein milieu du désert !
Les ricains aussi, c'est vrai mais eux n'avais pas la grande culture historique de Leone !

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Re: [Documents]Il était une fois dans l'Ouest - C'era una volta il West - 1968 - Sergio Leone

Messagepar tepepa » 04 févr. 2008 9:44

Jean-Louis a écrit :Les ricains aussi, c'est vrai mais eux n'avais pas la grande culture historique de Leone !


Bouuh le vil sarcasme!! :D
D'abord c'est votre faute à vous les américanistes. Vous avez commencé par dire que les spaghettis ne valaient pas tripette, qu'ils n' avaient pas l'âme assez idoine ni le sens sans plombs pour qu'ils comptent comme de vrais westerns.
Alors les fans de Leone ont fait valoir la grande culture historique de Leone en pure légitime défense. Mais cette culture a été exagérée tant et si bien que certaines personnes désormais pensent que les films de Leone sont 100 fois plus réalistes que le western américain lambda, pendant que d'autres prennent un mesquin plaisir à souligner les cartouches dans les poudres noires ou autres cabanes en rondin au milieu du désert.

Donc c'est vous qui avez commencé d'abord, na! Donc halte au feu! :D

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Re: [Documents]Il était une fois dans l'Ouest - C'era una volta il West - 1968 - Sergio Leone

Messagepar Jean-Louis » 04 févr. 2008 15:03

tepepa a écrit :
Jean-Louis a écrit :Les ricains aussi, c'est vrai mais eux n'avais pas la grande culture historique de Leone !


Bouuh le vil sarcasme!! :D
assez idoine ni le sens sans plombs prennent un mesquin plaisir à souligner les cartouches dans les poudres noires.

Donc c'est vous qui avez commencé d'abord, na! Donc halte au feu! :D


Halte au feu, d'accord, d'autant plus que moi c'est de l'antimoine que je rajoute à mon plomb pour durcir mes cartouches
à la poudre noire. :mrgreen:

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Re: [Documents]Il était une fois dans l'Ouest - C'era una volta il West - 1968 - Sergio Leone

Messagepar Darksatin » 04 févr. 2008 18:13

[Citation de Jean-Louis : Quoi que de plus normal avec tout le bois qu'il y a profusion tout autour.
C'est ce qui m'a toujours fait marrer ces villes tout en bois en plein milieu du désert ! ]

OK, mais n'oublions pas que l'on livre à Jill MCBain l'équivalent d'une ville en bois divers et varié. :num1

Il a donc bien pu être possible de faire venir "quelques rondins" pour la bâtisse de son mari. :wink:

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Re: [Documents]Il était une fois dans l'Ouest - C'era una volta il West - 1968 - Sergio Leone

Messagepar Jean-Louis » 05 févr. 2008 12:10

Autrement dit tu justifies une erreur par une autre erreur. :wink:

Allez une petite contribution :


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L'affiche allemande

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Re: [Documents]Il était une fois dans l'Ouest - C'era una volta il West - 1968 - Sergio Leone

Messagepar Personne » 07 févr. 2008 13:44

La BA:

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Re: [Documents]Il était une fois dans l'Ouest - C'era una volta il West - 1968 - Sergio Leone

Messagepar Personne » 07 févr. 2008 17:15

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Re: [Documents]Il était une fois dans l'Ouest - C'era una volta il West - 1968 - Sergio Leone

Messagepar Personne » 10 févr. 2008 16:08

Article dans le Mensuel Cinéma 69!

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6256
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Re: [Documents]Il était une fois dans l'Ouest - C'era una volta il West - 1968 - Sergio Leone

Messagepar Personne » 21 févr. 2008 20:23

Ca peut faire un avatar!

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Re: [Documents]Il était une fois dans l'Ouest - C'era una volta il West - 1968 - Sergio Leone

Messagepar Personne » 21 févr. 2008 20:28

Encore un avec cette gifle 'warlock style', MNEP n'est pas loin.

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